Y’know, till this moment, I never realized just how much a BITCH Charlene can be…And as I already said, CP and DE aren’t one and the same, and the quicker the rest of the Charlies realize that, the better….And lastly, Char, you ARE ALL OTHER YOUS 🙁
I don’t see bitch… I see pragmatic. She’s trying to save their life. And when she hits him, it’s because he endangered their lives. If anything, I would say that she’s assertive where the other Charlies are wishy-washy and kind of low in self-confidence. They would probably debate over how Charlie should say his piece of news for twenty minutes if she hadn’t stepped up and said “Hey, dudes, we’re gonna frickin’ DIE for philosophy here!”
An assertive woman is not a bitch…. at least in my book. It’d be different if guys were called assholes for speaking their mind in an assertive way, but they’re not, they’re patted on the back and told “Good on you.”
And honestly, good on anyone in my opinion. One is not a pain for speaking their mind… though I understand you feeling pain for Charlie. I did too. In the last scene, he was punched (in his mind) for trying to be a hero. Charlene saw the pragmatic truth, that he endangered everyone after she risked herself to save his life, but I’m not entirely sure Charlie did. Or will.
I just happen to sympathize with CP in all this, as I guess I should as he is the avatar for us non-Charlies to understand what is going on (if there’s anyone out there sympathizing with DE….brrrr)
I am surprised somewhat that it took this long for anyone to comment, I would have last night but decided to sleep on my thoughts, and what’s above came out LOL
Nothing against Char’s assertiveness, but the fact remains she’s the odd one out when it comes to personality here, and that’s what sticks in my craw with the current situation….even though he knew DE would likely deflect the shots away again, Leo still chose to shoot again and so was Charlene when CP dumped them out by Barstow (Fear & Loathing, anyone? LOL), maybe in a way to sacrifice himself to DE (maybe believing by doing so he’d remove DE), but it seems after DE revealed his destruction of the AU, it changed his mind and he realized they aren’t two points on the same road, so to speak…
I also realize that shifting focus, had Leo made that crack at CP, I’d have said he was a dick, so I guess my problem was with the pragmatic shortness, not so much who it was coming from…..
Totally understood. There’s just connotations to the word “bitch”, so I felt I should address it.
That’s not to say that I think Charlene’s behavior is productive, or fair, and her assertiveness in the face of where she could be kind will eventually get her into trouble… as it would a man…
And I honestly do really sympathize with Charlie, thrown in amongs the wolves so fast.
Vis-a-vis whether this is a clear line in the sand, I wouldn’t be so sure. We don’t know what made Dark Everett the Dark Everett yet… I promise you I could just as easily justify Charlie eventually becoming the Dark Everett and doing this as them being completely separate entities… which it’ll be you’ll have to wait and see. I’d just suggest to bear in mind that tragedy, failure, and loss making someone want to kill themselves is what pushed Charlie to where he was, so what would further tragedy, failure, and loss potentially make him do?
That there is the crux of this thing. Will he learn from his mistake, or embrace his own death, given the way the world is?
Whether or not the line is clear, I am choosing to believe so until conditions cause me to reassess my position LOL but I believe we had a (private) discussion on this subject when I first crashed the party, metaphorically, where I had promoted such a concept and you said something to the effect of “no Green Lanterning” going on here 😉
I of course will continue to ride Blaine The Mono all the way to Topeka (Stephen King/Dark Tower reference for anyone who cares LOL) and see how it all has been/will be until the bitter end 🙂
What I probably meant to convey (and would publicly) is that no matter what happens between DE and Charlie, whether it’s a universe where he is in a recursive loop, or whether or not this changes everything on a set time, or some third option… is that he’s gonna realize that DE is a bastard, and an awful person, so if he goes in and becomes him, he will have to do so with full knowledge… not that either or the two is impossible.
You won’t know which is which for some time, but it is known to me. 🙂 The reason I keep emphasizing it is because I want people to be assured that even what seems to be the most strict and immutable evidence is not necessarily so in a universe of infinite potentiality.
To put that more succinctly, just because Dark Everett seems to be changing his own past, doesn’t mean that it necessarily is or isn’t, based on what Prime does.
You are welcome, though I had no intention of being the sole voice on display other than our Dear Leader LOL
With 3 updates a week and it’s been tense enough over the last month storywise, I just got chomping at the bit and ended up starting this whole shebang 🙂
Yes, statistically there are more Charlies, but Murphy’s Law states Charlene cannot be the only one we will see through the course of this….and not necessarily on the side of the “angels” either 😉
I take a tacit implication I might be correct that just as all Charlies are not all the same, not all Charlenes might be as “kick-ass” (for lack of a better non-sexist metaphor LOL) as what we have come to experience with “our” Charlene….
Side note/query: Have we seen the last of the Undertaker? Especially since we have never been given any accounting on him other than what we already know through story (very Roland Deschain of SK’s Dark Tower, btw) and even though we are in the midst of this particular arc, I do wish I knew more about him, since he did sit at a neutral juncture between CTI and DE (or at least that is in-story understanding)
Oh, last but not least, why do I think that all DE did was mess up one particularly big part of the AU just to show the team/CP and hope that that would crush their/ his spirit/s enough to give up and stop trying to stop him? Or is that just a silly question? 😉
You will see the Undertaker again, and learn a lot more about him… the story will go into the past at times in ways I don’t want to spoil. You’ll see. If you’re a fan of the Undertaker, stay tuned.
I can’t comment as to DE’s motivations without spoiling things, but you are asking a good question.
Y’know, till this moment, I never realized just how much a BITCH Charlene can be…And as I already said, CP and DE aren’t one and the same, and the quicker the rest of the Charlies realize that, the better….And lastly, Char, you ARE ALL OTHER YOUS 🙁
I don’t see bitch… I see pragmatic. She’s trying to save their life. And when she hits him, it’s because he endangered their lives. If anything, I would say that she’s assertive where the other Charlies are wishy-washy and kind of low in self-confidence. They would probably debate over how Charlie should say his piece of news for twenty minutes if she hadn’t stepped up and said “Hey, dudes, we’re gonna frickin’ DIE for philosophy here!”
An assertive woman is not a bitch…. at least in my book. It’d be different if guys were called assholes for speaking their mind in an assertive way, but they’re not, they’re patted on the back and told “Good on you.”
And honestly, good on anyone in my opinion. One is not a pain for speaking their mind… though I understand you feeling pain for Charlie. I did too. In the last scene, he was punched (in his mind) for trying to be a hero. Charlene saw the pragmatic truth, that he endangered everyone after she risked herself to save his life, but I’m not entirely sure Charlie did. Or will.
And that’s the rest of the story… heh.
Unintentional sexism noted, and retracted.
I just happen to sympathize with CP in all this, as I guess I should as he is the avatar for us non-Charlies to understand what is going on (if there’s anyone out there sympathizing with DE….brrrr)
I am surprised somewhat that it took this long for anyone to comment, I would have last night but decided to sleep on my thoughts, and what’s above came out LOL
Nothing against Char’s assertiveness, but the fact remains she’s the odd one out when it comes to personality here, and that’s what sticks in my craw with the current situation….even though he knew DE would likely deflect the shots away again, Leo still chose to shoot again and so was Charlene when CP dumped them out by Barstow (Fear & Loathing, anyone? LOL), maybe in a way to sacrifice himself to DE (maybe believing by doing so he’d remove DE), but it seems after DE revealed his destruction of the AU, it changed his mind and he realized they aren’t two points on the same road, so to speak…
(Wow, I’m just a chatty Kathy today!)
I also realize that shifting focus, had Leo made that crack at CP, I’d have said he was a dick, so I guess my problem was with the pragmatic shortness, not so much who it was coming from…..
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it LOL
Totally understood. There’s just connotations to the word “bitch”, so I felt I should address it.
That’s not to say that I think Charlene’s behavior is productive, or fair, and her assertiveness in the face of where she could be kind will eventually get her into trouble… as it would a man…
And I honestly do really sympathize with Charlie, thrown in amongs the wolves so fast.
Vis-a-vis whether this is a clear line in the sand, I wouldn’t be so sure. We don’t know what made Dark Everett the Dark Everett yet… I promise you I could just as easily justify Charlie eventually becoming the Dark Everett and doing this as them being completely separate entities… which it’ll be you’ll have to wait and see. I’d just suggest to bear in mind that tragedy, failure, and loss making someone want to kill themselves is what pushed Charlie to where he was, so what would further tragedy, failure, and loss potentially make him do?
That there is the crux of this thing. Will he learn from his mistake, or embrace his own death, given the way the world is?
re: “bitch”, understood 🙂
Whether or not the line is clear, I am choosing to believe so until conditions cause me to reassess my position LOL but I believe we had a (private) discussion on this subject when I first crashed the party, metaphorically, where I had promoted such a concept and you said something to the effect of “no Green Lanterning” going on here 😉
I of course will continue to ride Blaine The Mono all the way to Topeka (Stephen King/Dark Tower reference for anyone who cares LOL) and see how it all has been/will be until the bitter end 🙂
What I probably meant to convey (and would publicly) is that no matter what happens between DE and Charlie, whether it’s a universe where he is in a recursive loop, or whether or not this changes everything on a set time, or some third option… is that he’s gonna realize that DE is a bastard, and an awful person, so if he goes in and becomes him, he will have to do so with full knowledge… not that either or the two is impossible.
You won’t know which is which for some time, but it is known to me. 🙂 The reason I keep emphasizing it is because I want people to be assured that even what seems to be the most strict and immutable evidence is not necessarily so in a universe of infinite potentiality.
To put that more succinctly, just because Dark Everett seems to be changing his own past, doesn’t mean that it necessarily is or isn’t, based on what Prime does.
Best comment thread ever. Thanks for the lively community!
You are welcome, though I had no intention of being the sole voice on display other than our Dear Leader LOL
With 3 updates a week and it’s been tense enough over the last month storywise, I just got chomping at the bit and ended up starting this whole shebang 🙂
The power of the Story compels me…..
Twas a voice worth listening to and sparked an interesting conversation. Please continue to do so.
Can’t promise to be interesting all the time, but I will try LOL
OK, a question I have not heard brought up:
Are there other Charlenes?
Yes, statistically there are more Charlies, but Murphy’s Law states Charlene cannot be the only one we will see through the course of this….and not necessarily on the side of the “angels” either 😉
Yes, there are other Charlenes, and yes, you will see them. 🙂
I take a tacit implication I might be correct that just as all Charlies are not all the same, not all Charlenes might be as “kick-ass” (for lack of a better non-sexist metaphor LOL) as what we have come to experience with “our” Charlene….
Side note/query: Have we seen the last of the Undertaker? Especially since we have never been given any accounting on him other than what we already know through story (very Roland Deschain of SK’s Dark Tower, btw) and even though we are in the midst of this particular arc, I do wish I knew more about him, since he did sit at a neutral juncture between CTI and DE (or at least that is in-story understanding)
Oh, last but not least, why do I think that all DE did was mess up one particularly big part of the AU just to show the team/CP and hope that that would crush their/ his spirit/s enough to give up and stop trying to stop him? Or is that just a silly question? 😉
I hope we learn more about the Undertaker. He is my favorite character.
You will see the Undertaker again, and learn a lot more about him… the story will go into the past at times in ways I don’t want to spoil. You’ll see. If you’re a fan of the Undertaker, stay tuned.
I can’t comment as to DE’s motivations without spoiling things, but you are asking a good question.